seeing is believing episode 1: autumn 2002 episode .
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November 3, 2002
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November 3, 2002 (archive)
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Moderator
Welcome everyone, to the live chat. Kat is here with me in Montreal. Joey is in Surallah in Mindanao, the Philippines. Peter is in Mexico City. This is a moderated chat, so I will be sending your questions and comments forward to the participants. Please join in.

Kat
Hi everyone

Joey
Greetings from the Philippines!

flip
hi

Kevin
hello great show guys!

sandra
Hi everyone. I'd like to know where all of the footage for the film came from

Kat
We spent two years searching the archives of the world and found over 400 hours of material

vancouversteve
u are a very brave man Joey

Kevin
Joey I think you are doing a truly noble thing, how can we get involved and help?

Joey
Thanks. The situation so demands.

Kat
Kevin, you can go to our nakamata wish list and donate to a piece of technology of your choice and you can write a letter from the Act now section

PTI
to the filmakers: how did you find/meet/know about the people who organize and make the front line videos?

Kat
We met Joey when he came to Montreal one snowy and cold winter day

Joey
Those who want to get involved and/or hekp could get in touch with Kat/Peter and Witness

Hidy
where are the nakamata situated in mindanao

Kat
We were introduced by Witness

Joey
Nakamata is in south-central Bukidnon. Bukidnon is in Central Mindanao.

Kevin
I am sure many people out there have skills that they can offer but are not sure how to apply them, whats the best place to start?

Kat
Kevin, check out the wish list section. check out the ACT NOW section

metac0m
Joey: what measures do you take for your own security, and do you think that measures such as encryption and other technologies designed to guarantee anonymity would be helpfull?

zool
Hi Joey, I'd like to know what motivated you to continue filming in the philippines even after the violent attacks against the people of the village?

Joey
Those are of great help. But really, one must never think of danger in a manner that one would just become scary doing things for others.

chummy
Good Luck in your endeavours Joey

jubal
interesting. good work.

Gurjit
You courage is truly inspirational

mitch
hello all what a moving experience

vince
good job joey

Odie
Great show - more power to the poor

mitch
To all, God bless you and your work

Joey
Zool, I think there's not just enough people here who want to do the real job.

niska
congratulations on a great piece of film work. however, even if it is true that the video can be captured we still have a problem in that most of the major news media is controlled by the corporate world and governments that don't want most of this news to get out. what do we do about that ?

Joey
Thanks Chummy.

Kat
Niska - do-it-yourself filmmaking, internet use help us create alternative forms of media

fdry2k
What is the philippine government doing right now to help resolve this problem??

Joey
In our case, Niska, we show it among advocates and support groups. That helps in building up pressure for authorities to act.

Kat
The National Bureau of Investigation has issued warrents for the suspects arrest - but they have yet to be arreested. Please forward a letter in our Act Now seciton

icarus
Has "Seeing is Believing" been released in the Phillipines and if not are there plans to air it there?

Kat
Icarus - we are hoping to get it seen in the Philippines!

Kevin
Hey Kat, Joey and Peter I am heavily involved in internet development and want to help , how can I get involved?

oscarwild
Do some of the handicam manufacturers sponsor and provide cameras, or are the cameras donated by concerned individuals?

johnny
Joey, i watched this with my daughter who is 16, i think she has made a career choice tonight.

Kat
Kevin - check out the campaign section too. Also, witness.org is a great place to get involved - they always need volunteers

metac0m
Peter & Kat: whatever happened to the guy covering the neo-nazis in chezch republic?

rosette
what type of camera are you using

Kat
metac0m - Ondrej Cakl is continuing his work. he is making a big documentary out of all his material for Czech State television

Joey
Welcome, Johnny's daughter. Johnny, brace yourself up with what you're daughter would be getting into!

Gurjit
The documentary stated that the local government has so far not been able to do much. Has there been any action at the federal level?

robbie
hi everyone... i'm a filipino too and i saw the film... it's great and courageous work!

als
sorry i think joey what you doing for those people is heroic in many ways

goose
joey, i would like to come to that village and help protect these people. is this possible?

browneyedgirl
Joey, your images and your courage is truly inspirational

humanity
Hi Joey, i like to know do you ever get worried of the dangers that your job has?

Kat
Gurjit- yes, the federal levels are the hope

Odie
Hey folks what about Canada, the First Nations' people, the homeless??

Kat
Odie - good point. First Nations in Canada have also used technologies in excellent and powerful ways

Sadcam
What about the ethics of putting people's images on viddeo who may become targets for violence once they are identified as being associated with activist groups?

Joey
Humanity, the trick is, don't allow the thought of danger to conquesr you. Think that there is a noble job to do for people who receive the least attention.

ixion
To the Moderator: any chance I can get a transcript of the chat for media studies students?

Moderator
A transcript will be available later this week

ckingsley
I work with exploited children, particularly those in the sex trade, most video segments I think contribute to the exploitation, how to prevent that

PeterWintonick
Hi. I am just logging in from Mexico City

Kat
Sadcam - the videographers we have profiled in the film are part of the community they are filming in, and are in close touch with the people they film.

browneyedgirl
How do the people of the nakamata community recharge the battery for the camera??

Joey
There's electricity nearby.

jubal
Filmmakers: Wondering if you plan to release a longer piece. This must have just scratched the surface with the material you have.

Peter
Whoa, this chat is fast and fun, its great so many people are logging in.

Joey
It's having more batteries to charge that's needed.

scottie
Scottie: What other opportunites will we have to see this doc in canada? Any local screenings planned?

Kat
jubal - we are hoping to create a series out of this!

davidbscott
Joey, what happens in your head to make you persue this type of work? Is there a moment of decision or has it always been there?

dave
hi joey I am so impressed by your heroic work. Could the national army help in a situation like this?

Joey
It's always been there, I think. It was the way I grew up and got exposed to - especially during the Marcos dictatorship.

metac0m
Joey: how has the situation changed since the end of the filming period?

Nico
Joey, sana meron pang ibang kababayan na ma-inspire sa ginagawa mo...all the best!

Barry2
Is this the entire film or did the Passionate Eye show an edited version tonight?

cam
joey was this a hobby that truned into something full time or where always involved in camera work?

Kat
Barry2 - this is a slightly shorter version than the festival version

Joey
metacOm - Not much. But we have filed a proposal to fund research for ancestral domain research for Nakamata members. that would be a great beginning.

chummy
As long as the Old-line familiues hold sway in the Phpns I hold little hope for real reform. I was engaged to a ladie whose family is one of the biggest landowners on Mindanao and it is amazing the resources they have and are willing to use to fight for what they think is theirs by divine right. They still have vast tracts in the Davao and Northern Mindanao area. Resorts plantations, cattle etc

Joey
cam - I used to skip my classes when I was young tjust to see movies. It was then that I began to be convinced with the power of film.

Peter
Hi Odie. We did produce a film directed by Dan Cross called The Street : A Film With the Homeless.

mary
when is the film being shown in Winnipeg. We were watching the CBC but the show wasn't on

solidarity
Joey: After seeing this program I can not begin to express my outrage that a multinational corporation(s) could profit from the slaughter of the Nakamata, could you please tell us which corporations are claiming rights to theses ancestral lands?

Kat
MARY - there's a repeat at 1 a.m. ET

robotsuper
Could interactivity be the next tool for oppressed people to inform the world of their oppression? Like this live chat for instance.

Angus
Wonderful work, I admire the three of you. I was glad that you had a segment on how less admirable associations of people than Joey's can also utilize video for their purposes; once again it is evidence that media is media and that it is wholly dependent on how it is used. The revolution seems not to be in the technology or the media, but access. That it seems to me is the key. Thoughts?

jyde
Is there never the fear that the camera could be found and destroyed and your own personal safety compromised. Great documentary, it made me think.

Stephen
What corporations are behind the land use for commerce? Bukidnon has very fertile soil; the main crops are corn, rice, coffee and bananas. It is the number one producer of corn and the second top producer of palay in the region. Del Monte has a vast pinapple plantation in the north. In the south, a sugar mill is in Paitan, Quezon town and abaca is grown for export. who own the sugar mills? ?

chris
Are other human rights groups (like Amnesty) aware of Joey's work?

Kat
ROBOTSUPER- interactivity is key. It makes people active instead of just passive consumers of media?

Joey
Nakamata is but ne of the many oppressed groups. Can you e-mail jlozano2001@yahoo.com so I could send you a list of companies here in Mindanao?

docomuso
I noticed that the film did not touch on the appropriation of land by Cooperations such as DOLE. Why was this? I have seen footage of this in other places before.

rene
Congrulation all of you for this good report and please don't stop

ixion
Thanks. I think these kind of experiences can open their eyes; thanks to CBC

vince
maraming salamat Joey. Please be careful and take care!

Joey
The sugar mills - there are two big ones in Bukidnon. One is controlled by the Lobregats and Prietos, the other by former Marcos cronies.

Hector
Interesting that some of the people doing this aren't so thrilled about people's need for images.

DiRGE
How does it feel to enter an area that has been freshly affected by tragedy, and to possibly be the only one to show the events

Kat
HECTOR- yeah. a lot of the activists turn to video out of desperation, cause noone believes waht they say

Analee
Mary -- I think Winnipeg's screening is one hour behind Montreal -- so midnight your time.

greenrose
Joey, great work! Do you think that mainstream media will be changed because of the work of "non-professional" videographers like you, e.g., to become more honest?

niska
kat, joey - as journalists what can we do to help?

Joey
DiRGE, have lots of tears to shed, and have courage to shoot and bring it to public.

ckingsley
Hi great show, I was interested in how the documentary focussed on the camcorder as a human rights instrument

BrianTO
Hi! Great show Kat, Joey and Peter! Very courageous of you all and very inspiring! Keep following the cause!

daria
will you be streaming this doc on the internet?

joe
tech contributes so much to the negatives in this world. Its uplifting to see tech helping a very good cause.

Joey
Thanks, BrianTO.

emc
Joey: I just watched the film and moved by your courage on helping these people. I'm a filipino migrated in Canada to escape all these tragedies and spare my children ( i guess I'm a coward in a sense) but everyday as I sat down on my desk at work and check out my homelands condition.. I pray for the safety of those people like you who take the initiative.

Kat
DARIA - we will have downloadable excerpts of the video up very soon on the site. in the meantime, check out the storyboard

Creeboy
I am a journalist with the Aboriginal Peoples Televison Network, here in Winnipeg, and I am very interested in getting more formally linked up with these documentary efforts. Should I just go the links or are there other ways? I can give you an email or what is yours?

Joey
Thanks, emc, and all of you there who care.

andy
Do you have other videos other than Nakamata?

Kat
Creeboy - send me an e-mail at katciz@yahoo.com

Kat
Creeboy - we actually talked to some people at APTN before

Brez
A picture is worth a thousand words, and conversely, the point was well made, not having pictures....then... see no evil. After seeing the show, the argument seems self evident. But prior to the film it wasn't. What was your inspiration for the documentary?

SamfromWITNESS
docomuso - video from Joey about pineapple plantations and development policy is on the WITNESS.org site, look for 'Road to Pineapple' rights alert

Peter
Brian, thanks for the encouraging words, the public festival screenings weve had in Canada, England, the US and Mexico the last few weeks have brought out reactions which point to the films positivity, which is something we appreciate.

Kat
BrianTO - go to "campaign site" and click on NAKAMATA WISH LIST!

docomuso
I must say that this chat after the documentary makes me feel that much less passive about this. I have followed Corporate appropriations of land in the Southern hemesphere, but have never known where to start to fight it, other than educate myself. Now I feel like I have a starting point. Thank you very much for doing this chat.

John1
Is there any political representation at all for the Nakamata tribe in local govt. ? And will this help bring representation

johnny
How many hectars are involved in the land claim?

Joey
John1, we're going to that soon.

docomuso
Joey, you were introduced as an activist. What methods did you use prior to the introduction of the video cam and how effective were they? Did video add to their potiency or make other activities obsolete?

Kat
dcomuso - thanks! that's the whole reason we did the chat. thanks for joining in.

acdel
I just caught the last fifteen minutes of the show, very powerful. This is directed to the three of you; how do you stay sane out there by seing so much misery?

mitch
Thank you all for an another eye opener into the world we live in

Joey
I write for a national daily, and help , too, in organizing and educating people about their rights.

browneyedgirl
I am an individual striving to contribute to more peaceful world and never did I tnink of technology as a tool of helping us achieve peace. Your piece tonight opened my eyes and my heart. Maybe technology is opening a path by exposing the many inequalities and injustices that plague our world

humanity
we should do something about that(homelesses in canada) ourselves.

rosette
joey, what camera do you use?

Peter
Daria, we want to use seeingisbelieving.media as an internet conduit and point of contact, a kind of dialog/multilog to allow broadcasters and educators and audiences and mediactivists to have a common space to meet each other. We will look to streaming some material, but everything we do and include has to be used with permission of those who generate the images.

Analee
acdel -- you can catch the full show tonight at 1am Eastern time (10 pm out here on the west coast)

Joey
Rosette - Witness issued me a small sony mini-dv. Before that, I was using Hi-8

cytlo
This question is directed to all the filmmakers. As a media studies student, I was wondering what the reception of your footage was like by broadcasters - publicly owned and private. Was there a difference in the framing of the stories? Did you have trouble getting your reports on air?

browneyedgirl
Peter and Kat...how did the two of you recognize the need for this doc and then develop it?

emc
After 7 years away this is still going on back home...i wonder when will it end?

ada
Kat : Is their a program in effect for schools in Canada that is offered by the CBC which focuses on this issue of 'video technology and the media'

icarus
Perhaps in the future live remote satelite video telephones ( which exist but are very expensive and presently have limitations) will broadcast live on-line, circumventing corporate controled media and avoiding confiscation and/or destruction of footage.

katie
I teach a high school World Issues course and would like to be able to use this in class. It is along the same lines as an older video called Dawn of the Eye done by an American broadcaster I think. Can I access the video?

jashe
How do you keep the batteries charged for the cam's in some of these villages?

Kat
KATIE - our educational distributor is FILM OPTION in Montrea. please go to "ABOUT FILM" and check out their contact info under BUY THE FILM

adrian
Could someone set up a electronic distribution list of people interested in this work..

Kat
ADRIA

kalyinka
keep up the good work---i think there is a lot of potential in communities communicating with each other to coordinate actions too (it doesn't all have to be for a big audience (hi kat)

cherrykingsley
Noone talked about how to ensure filming won't perpetuate the exploitation you are trying to document, ie: children who are abused and/or exploited, I worry about the way it is documented sometimes

kalyinka
mary you need to watch cbc newsworld.

adrian
Joey, Peter...Where, we as Canadians go from here to assist you

sandra
In the CAMPAIGN/wishlist section you can make a donation and in the CAMPAIGN/act now section you can send a letter in support of NAKAMATA

Peter
metacom, the chiapas video project is one such project based in the same decentralized and principled way as Joey and Witnesses work. I am meeting many such filmmakers and facilitators here at a documentary conference in mexico this week.

Joey
Jashe, we have an adapter for a battery of 12-v source. That keeps us for even a week.

fdry2k
According to the film, a warrant was issued for the arrest of the suspects and when the NBI arrived on the suspects house they're all gone, is this means that the local police are protecting these murderers??

metac0m
I guess the terror being inflicted on the Nakamata people doesnt fit in the Geogre W's "war on terror" -- no resources, no money, no time, no care

solidarity302
Congratulations on what is obviously an award winning show: if the CBC does not pick this up as a series I would hope PBS can pick it up, as educational television of this calibre is certainly needed.

PTI
niska: there are a number of dv cameras out there all with more or less the same tech specs ranging in price starting in at around 900 canadian - but there is never any guarantiee that a tv news station will except that the quality of any consumer dv tape as adequate - the bar is rising and i do believe that it is rising in order to control the content on "official" news sources - this is what makes alternative news sources on the internet so vital and important

Divak
Joey, I just watched that documentary film in Central Mindanao.... I am a Filipino here in Toronto and was concerned what I saw in your film...

rene
does your team think to go back in Nakamata to follow up?

davidbscott
in addition to acdel: how do your families feel about what you do for a living?

acdel
Thanks Analee, Kat, you are all very brave, stay safe.

vince
God Bleess you joey

Kat
Rene - we'd love to go back to Nakamata. we're hoping in the spring.

Kat
thanks ACDEL!

toppo
is the internet the only way to get these films out? except for the occasional docu that is

Joey
Thanks, Divak. See Act Now www.witness.org

Joey
Yes, Stephen. We're doing that.

Kat
TOPPO - there's local screenings, there's festival, there's community meetings... LIVE is still very important.

indianjoe
how long and how much work did you have to do from filming to getting this to a national media source?

Kat
INDIAN JO - we worked on the film for 2 years. And Joey's been doing this kind of work for many many years

goose
good luck to all of you out there!!!!!!!

nine
Congratulations to all on an excellent film! I presume the filming was done a while ago, has anything changed since?

Joey
Salamat, goose.

PTI
toppo: the internet is not to be underestimated as a means for disseminating information and exposing events to the world - but of course one can always still try and supply any material to conventional news services and even try and set up community screenings

Peter
Brez, we were inpspired by the way that activists are putting themselves at the forefront, but also wanted to look at an important and i would say revolutionary technological shift. Although we are most fortunate in Canada to have wider exposure to international issues on the CBC and other nets, and especially on Passionate Eye, in many other parts of the world, broadcasters are becoming reluctant to program international issues, so we hope that the international telecasts of this film will help dialogue.

Joey
Not much, nine... but very soon, we hope.

Moderator
for updates on JOEY and NAKAMATA please visit Joey's Blog in the Campaign section of this website

KoK
Surely the internet is the best place for these kind of videos - the problem is that it doesn't reach as many people as TV.

indianjoe
great job guys you are an inspiration to us all

goose
i`m a part of green peace that`s it but i would love to help in anyway possible!!!!!

Kat
thanks INDIANJOE

Divak
I think the perpetrators are only individuals for humble opinion.

PTI
Kok: the great thing about the internet is that people can reach it

Analee
PTI As someone coming from a background in social work, I can tell you that supplying news stations with images of eg. terrible housing conditions of exploitive landlords will help get a story media coverage. Like Czakl says, it's terrible, but people want the images before they'll pay attention.

Peter
acdel, where there is misery there also is hope, we work for better communities, for better cities, for better societies, and believe that strong documentaries, and reponsible television nets can help that happen.

kalyinka
although it is not easy to watch these images from my canadian living room, it is much easier than filming them. the heroes on the ground, like joey, like the nakamata, the czech anti-fascist---these people are incredibly brave, standing exposed with their video cameras. i am in awe.

PTI
analee: i have no doubt that you are right - it's a pity that it has to reach the stage of disaster before they take notice - but of course it does or can help once they do

johnny
Joey,how many hectars are involved in the land claim?

Peter
PTI, for me the web is the next frontier for documentary, i call them digidocs, where we can take what we know about making effective documentaries and apply that knowledge to the unique field of creation which the web is.... dvdocs hold promise too, but sometimes a telephone call is all one needs to get something happening.

Joey
Nakamata's land claim may total more than 15,000 hectares, spread in 5 municipalities, cytlo2.

KoK
PTI - Theoretically, people can reach the internet, but the cost still makes it prohibitive for grassroots activism, I think

chris
Joey: I'm always amazed when I see and hear about people who take action in non-violent form. Many groups we see on the news would pick up a gun rather than a Camera. It takes a lot of courage to shield your self with such a 'weapon'.

goose
I`m going to pray for all of the nakamata members tonight. god bless you all!!

camok
Joey, other than communications, what other technologies would be of most help in southern Phil?

Peter
Kalyinka, there is also much you can do, from your "living room in Canada" as you say, many local initiatives need your help too.

Joey
In the internet cafe where i am now, I pay 30 pesos per hour. that's less than 1 USD.

Joey
camok, Nakamata coalition needs a motorcycle and bicycles for mobility.

rkb
hello, you are all inspiring individuals, is there any possibility to volunteer for these docs. to learn and contribute?

PTI
Peter: i agree with you - the important thing is to use all available means of communication - and sometimes the most obvious are the most effective - even though they are usually otherwised tasked - and so far and for now the internet and the dv camcorder are relatively accessible and affordable alternatives providing great creative and political freedom

Kat
You can donate by check or pay pal

Analee
kok, pti: Can't forget about the power of radio in coutnries where Internet/video are still not accessible. That's an effective organizing tool in many places.

niska
a lot of people identify with what you are doing and would like to stand up to oppression and injustice but are afraid. what can you say to us? as a result of sept 11 it has become a struggle just to voice any opinion that is not mainstream and conservative.

docomuso
Is there a movement to provide videocams to groups in remote locations over the world to influence change? IE a movement to see that EVERY Human Rights group in the world no matter how big or small gets a cam in their office in the field?

Moderator
DOCOMUSO: check out WITNESS.ORG

Peter
chris, for me nonviolent action in the ghandian sense, is the only hope for change... the pacifism that joey and the nakamata live, is a great example....i believe weve had too many centuries of wars and threats of war, of violence on personal and social levels, in this century lets find alternatives in peace.

chris
I imagine that it is very difficult to get any help/funding support in the Philipines for the Nakamata, seeing as those that control the wealth have opposing interests. Are there any local resources for the Nakamata?

Kat
docomuso - YES> Witness.org. is the amazing organization that was started by peter Gabriel and others to put technologies in the hands of local people

KoK
Analee - Radio is definitely more immediate, but harder to produce

Kat
CHRIS - very few local sources. thats why international pressure and support is so important

PTI
one thing i am thinking about that is in the documentary is the fact that both sides are making use of the same resources - one can imagine a kind of battle in the communications trenches - and i wonder how the other side is fairing in this battle - are these new resources working against other video activists? i mean what are those nazis going to do with their footage?

Kat
PTI - good point. I tried making contact with the newo-nazis to ask them that very question. they almost showed up for our meeting, and then pulled out last minute. they are very secretive, becuase being a member of nazi org is illegal in the Czech Republic

Human
Anyways,,, What are you guys currently discussing in here tonight?

KoK
Too bad you can't view the video archives online at http://www.witness.org - is this a bandwidth/cost issue?

Kat
HUMAN - did you watch the film? what did you think?

kalyinka
there needs to be an open video forum, an international handheld video channel. making the videos is not nearly as hard as disseminating them. are there any initiatives in that direction?

chummy
I recently spent a month in Cebu and Medina, Mindanao and was astounded at the deep intertwined interests and wealth in the upper Echelons.

Kat
KoK - you should be able to see videos and reports at witness

Human
I didn't see it toinght. :( (only clips - but i got the jist)

Human
Are the film makers in here ?

johnny
I think human needs a little shut eye perhaps??

adrian
Joey, Peter, Kat....is anyone using this outpouring of support to have an action plan for future support

Peter
PTI, communications is a two way street, and of course the technology which enables human rights work, can disable them as well... surveillance cameras spring to mind. The battle in the trenches is there, but in fact powerful and influential forces own and control most mass media sources and thus what we know of the world. All of us have to dig deeper and make our sources of information more diverse.

Human
BTW it's funny, I live in montreal and i've been the philipines and mexico. Where all u are. :)

docomuso
I wonder why you did not address aboriginal issues in Canada as part of the documentary. Oka comes to mind. I think an interesting theme would have been the global abuse of aboriginal/indigenous peoples and the need for visual evidence just to be heard... not necessarily to get action.

Kat
ADRIAN - witness.org, and at our site, you an find ACT NOW letter-writing campaigns as well as the NAKAMATA wish list

PTI
niska: i think it is important to be afraid - there is much to be afraid of - but to use that fear to spur you on rather than imobolise you - it means you should be careful, for sure - but if you are afraid it's because there is danger and the first step to deal with danger is to expose it - however you can do that - even if that just means telling your friends

Peter
Greenrose, i think the mainstream is changing because of the input of mediactivists, the MASS MEDIA meets media for the masses, so to speak.

adrian
Joey, Peter, Kat....using existing social justice networks in North America...

Kat
docomuso - good point. First Nations communities in Canada have made great use of video - for example burnt church, and the Innu of Davis Inlet. Unfortunately, we were not able to get in all the 400 hours of archives we found from around the world. We hope to start a regular series though!

Moderator
human: why don't you take a look at the rest of the website, esp. the STORYBOARD section

PTI
Peter: absolutely - the more global our village becomes - the more controlled is its representation

adrian
Kat...I mean more than Urgent Action Campaigns..

cytlo2
Kat: a BBC rep stated that he's afraid that news orgs. may only rely on amateur footage instead of paying for reporters to actually do investigative work. Do you feel the same? Do you think broadcasters are financing stories that affirm hegemonic status quo and are afraid to step out of that realm?

Peter
docomuso, Kat has made a film about Oka, Alanis Obosowin at the National Film Board has made one of the most important docs on that, and she has just finished one on Burnt Church.....so we didnt want to be redundant...

docomuso
I wonder if there could not be a global aboriginal human rights case brought to the UN Human Rights Treaty Bodies to argue that this is a global activity and not isolated from Country to Country and take it on this way.

Kat
DOCOMUSO - good point

Kat
JOEY - whats the big human rights news in the Philippines today

Peter
kalinka, i like that idea of creating an international camcorder channel, the web is enabling that, its happening in audio, music and cds so a peer to peer system might be affordable and practical, or piggypacking on donated sat time, or direct to home casts.... i m interested in pursuing those things, there is so much material out there, or out here that such a channel is sustainabe.

Joey
Kat, news about HR don't come out often.

Analee
Kat, Cytlo2 -- Human Rights Watch made an interesting comment about the increasing responsibility of human rights orgs to get video & other media out there because of the issue of foreign bureaus closing and the need to have these stories covered.

fdry2k
According to the film, a warrant was issued for the arrest of the suspects and when the NBI arrived on the suspects house they're all gone, is this means that the local police are protecting these murderers??

teacher
As a high school teacher, how can I teach my students to use video, cellphones, and their computers for good, and really get passionate about it?

Joey
fdry2k, there's strong suspicion on that.

chris
Kat and Peter: Have you thought of different media to distribute the doc? VCDs and DVDs come to mind because they are cheaper to mass produce and mail.

Kat
FDRY2K - yes, very likely. That's why the international community has to put pressure on the Federal Agents. That's where the hope is for change

Kat
CHRIS - we are hoping to make a DVD when we get a little more money

chummy
Make up some interesting projects for them, but especially ask THEM for ideas

heath8987
i'm here.... i find by reading everyone's posting, i can learn and absorb as much information as possible... which will lead to me helping in anyway i can!! thanks everyone.. and this chat is interactive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Analee
teacher -- check out the Teacher's E-Zine to the Digital Revolution here on the site in January -- for info, visit the Teacher's E-Zine section of the site.

chummy
Where in the Phpns are U Joey and what Newspaper do U work for?

Joey
chummy, I'm in South Cotabato right now. I am a correspondent of the Mindanao Bureau of the Philippine Daily Inquirer.

trevor
Part of the soundtrack seemed to have some kind of strange folk-techno song hybrid - what was that?

fdry2k
as of to this date is there anymore killings happenings on any members of the Nakamata?

Peter
Teacher, its great youve logged in. I dont know what age your students are, but if I can go by my teenage daughter, they are really aware of the techno part of the technology... its the ology, the thinking part which has to be encouraged... you can start by showing them the film and doing exercises to imagine what repurposes everyday consumer items can be put too. Barry Duncan, who has worked with the Canadian Association of Media Literacy is helping us develop teaching guides.

Joey
I think, both.

Analee
Teacher: if you haven't been there yet, you can also check out Media Awareness Network. Can't recall their site address, but should be easy to find with Google search.

cytlo2
Analee, Kat, KoK2 - I think the question lies here, even if the Human Rights orgs get video of wrong doings, will there be a place to broadcast it on a national/international forum? There are so many gatekeepers in news organizations - I'm afraid stories that do not affect a country immediately will have no space in national/international news.

mjb
teacher: that's an amazing question - teenagers in north america seem to love tech and they also seem to love fast communication - all you need to do find what issues they are passionate already about and maybe together you can dream up ways creating events which facilitate their own kind of activism

Kat
FOR LATEST UPDATESD ON NAKAMATA, go to Joey's BLOG, and check out the campaing site. also, witness.org has excellent coverage.

Peter
cytlo, there are also "gatekeepers" who are also really doing their best to bring international stories to audiences, the Newworld people do that (this is an unsolicited comment) Catherine Olsen and Jerry McIntosh do support our work, but I know that Catherine scans the world to bring the best international docs to Passionate Eye.

KoK2
Kat + cytlo2 - this docu has really got me thiniking about the role of a journalist and what his responsibilites should be and are. I work for the CBC, by the way, so this comes up every day.

StephenS
Trevor: your watch too much lonely planet...but yes that was a nice mix!

StephenS
http://www.media-awareness.ca/

KoK2
that soundtrack was good, I must say

Kat
TREVOR - sorry I missed your post earlier. The music was composed by our amazing eric lemoyne. Come back to the site soon, and we will post the entire song...

Peter
KoK2, i think what we as independent documentarians, and what Joey and other responsible mediactivist do is also journalism. I find that there is too little media about media on the media.... which is strange, because media is all pervasive, if not all persuasive..... i know there are many journalists out there with great integrity... but i think all citizens have to be responsible for the media they consume, too.

docomuso
Joey, are you going to answer my last question? Or did it come out muddled? Is there a national indigenous people's organisation in the Philipinnes?

cytlo2
Kat, KoK2, Peter: I feel CBCNewsworld has done a great job in showing different perspectives. Unfortunately there is a portion of the Cnd pop. who do not view these shows. They view quick tabloid like news programs who do not stray far from provincial/national news. Thank you for your efforts and to CBC for providing a better balance.

Joey
Lots of them, including support groups - with various colors, of course.

Kat
KoK2 - thanks! The main song (during the ritual) was a digitziation of the chants during the ritual, and then played through the synthesizer. A fusion of the ancient with the state-of-the-art

Divak
Joey, why you brought those NBI agents from Manila. The locales will never help you catch the guy, they dreaded them.

KoK2
Peter - I reckon you guys are journalists - no doubt about that. It's going to be interesting to see where all of this amateur handicam stuff and web distribution channels will take us

ADRIAN
Hello Peter...is there a similiar video docu pgm in Chiapas

Joey
My last post was for documoso..

trevor
Stephen - never seen lonely planet! What do you mean? The strange hybrid to me seemed to suggest that this little village in the Phillipines had, with a handicam, jumped into the future. Nice touch.

KoK2
cytlo2 - we try. on a budget, no less.

Kat
ADRIAN - the Nakamata wish list is in the CAMPAIGN portion of our website. check it out!

Peter
docomuso, there are international bodies bringing together many First Nations Peoples, maybe they can be lobbied or are acting to bring action

KoK2
Peter (pt II) - being vigilant consumers of media is what it's all about. But I think most people fail in this respect.

Kat
THE NEXT SCREENING OF SEEING IS BELEIVING ON CBC-NEWSWORLD begins in 23 MINUTES

alexmontreal
If handheld cams become much more prevalent, my guess is that the new information will not really change situations of oppressed people. At the beginning, perhaps there would be some changes as " shocking" images go public and there's some clamor. But won't authorities just find a more sophisticated way of smothering the new info? How will they do this? What do you think.

Kat
Have people checked out other portions of the website?

docomuso
True Peter, But here in Canada we see how easily Native groups can be divided against each other.... We need a global response that is a joing issue. Land is it.

trevor
Although this doc focused on handycam footage, it itself was not shot on a handicam, right? Is there anyone out there willing to fund a handicam-only doc, or should indy handicam documentarians get used to funding their projects themselves?

toppo
same, to what extent do you think people will respond to images? I mean, after a while won't the "shock value" lessen?

Kat
TREVOR - the filmmakers of this film shot this film on a camera that is pretty much a handicam

KoK2
Before this shuts down, I want to thank and congratulate you all. Keep up the fight, and Joey - don't feel too bad about them subtitling your English. I understood you perfectly!

toppo
same, I could understand it!

ADRIAN
There are already some ppl here from the CDN Westcoast

johnny
mee too

Peter
Heath, there is something really Gestalt, or additive, or synergestic about these Chat experiences.... if you scan through them you really get a great snapshot of a widerange of opinion, not to mention geographical expanse as voices chime in from all over the planet.. its a great use of the net, beyond the idle chatter of the fanchat sites etc.

Joey
KoK2, I don't feel bad at all. Thanks for the interest.

StepenM
Kat : YES great site great Job your know how to surround yourself with great talent! :-)

Kat
Thanks StepenM I know our team here in Montreal (and Vancouver!) really appreciate your comments

alexmontreal
the reason I metnion this is that new ways of discovering and exposing oppressive situations have occured before, and I'm sure many were excited about the possibilities., But there are always ways around this innovations, and its pretty important to try and anticipate what the reactions to the new technology will be.

solo
joey:very touching, i'm glad that people are getting their stories thru

Joey
KoK2, no I won't. thanks

ADRIAN
We have chatted....NOW WHAT DO WE DO TO SUPPORT THE CAUSE ??

Joey
solo, lots of reason to thank Witness, Kat and Peter...

Kat
ADRIAN - THANKS! go to Wish List, send the letter in the ACT NOW section!

BrianTO
you can also get petitions going at http://www.thepetitionsite.com/ and get more people to write letters

solo
joey:i am a canadian filipino and me and my family watched the show.

Peter
alex, information is the lifeblood of documentaries and of democracies, sure there will always be diversionary deflections from the important issues which are necessary to confront and find solutions for, but there are so many workarounds of the dominant media structures, the monovision, the monolog, the cyclopse of Mass Media, that diverse information will always reach the people who are searching for it. But all information is more or less neutral, it is action, volunteerism, creation that counts.

Joey
Thanks for watcvhing, ,solo. Let's not lose hope.

StepenM
The blog is a great tool...

Analee
It's Marie B - I'ved just come out of an international conference on women against war and imperialism, and we had several indigenous participants from the Phils and locally - it has put me in the mood to watch Seeing is Belieiving at 10:00. I told some of the participants to watch too.

solo
joey: keep it up and we canadian filipinos are with you.

Joey
Thanks, solo. We know you'll never abandon your homeland.

docomuso
I would like to commend the CBC for showing documenatries like this. I was starting to go nuts with the repeat showings of "Southern Comfort"....

mtkt
The ancestral domain claims by these indigeneous tribes in Central Mindanao has a great impact on Philippine economy.

StepenM
Kat: what are you going to cover next in this series?

Kat
DOCOMUSO - yeah, we are really proud of all our public broadcasters around the world who have supported this documentary from the beginning. French CBC (SRC/RDI), VRT-Belgium, DRK-Denmark, Holland and Australia too!

Kat
StepenM - for now we are focussing on getting as many stories as possible on the website. we will publish 4 full episodes of material. In January, we will put up a big site about GPS technologies and how First Nations around the world are using new tech to reclaim their proper land

Peter
StephenM, blogging is really a great form of individual journalism.... part of a new era where we are not just either producers or consumers of information, but produsers i.e. producers and users at one and the same time.

docomuso
As documentary film producers, do you find a difference in terms of showings of your work in Canada and the USA? It seems that there is not much room for docs like yours in the overall US TV market (except PBS maybe)

Kat
docomuso - HBO lately has become a realy documentary supporter. But the US market is different than Canada, no doubt. We just had great responses at the Hamptons International Film Festival in early October.

mtkt
Joey, The ancestral domain claims by these indigeneous tribes in Central Mindanao has a great impact on Philippine economy.

Joey
Certainly, mtkt. Natives being able to reclaim their land is a bow to globalization, which is the current thrust of Macapagal administration.

Kat
YES, the lands in Mindanao are prime real estate. very fertile soils, and some of the last most ancient rainforests in the world

StepenM
KAT: 4 full episodes about? the GPS bit was great digital mapping and airail photography are great tools

Peter
Now everyone, go phone a friend, and tell them to tune in the next broadcast, which if I can trust this clock in this internet cafe in Mexico City, begins in a few minutes, n est ce pas?

docomuso
Do you feel the Canadian audience is more activist or global in thinking than the American counterpart?

Kat
Stepen4 - 4 full episodes! about more video footage, more ethical questions, about GOS technology, about wireless, about the internet. its endless

chris
I really enjoyed the film, and saw it twice, once in a theater, and once on TV. It is amazing as to how commercials can really change the tone of the film.

Kat
THE NEXT SCREENING OF SEEING IS BELIEVING ON CBC-NEWSWORLD begins in 2 MINUTES! call your friends...

mtkt
Joey, actually it was already granted back to them years before. But in reality it never happened.

anropa
I really regret missing the airing tonight on CBC. I don't have a TV currently but I'll be sure to put in several library requests to have them order it. I'll watch it at a friend's place. I'll also be watching your site for additional screenings and airing dates. I've got to get a TV soon - I hate missing The Passionate Eye and other good docs.

Joey
You're right, mtkt, there's a law that says they have a right to their ancestral lands. But here in the Philippines, law and fiction are sometimes the same.

chris
Things aren't a *lot* better in Canada vis a vis land claims, look what happened to the Niska. One change in govt. and years of work went down the drain.

Kat
CHRIS - yes. land claims have turned rights into paperwork and massive bureaucracy, wearing away at indigenous rights

Kat
OKAY. SEEING IS BELIEVING is now starting at CBC-NEWSWORLD

chummy
Especially with the type of Government we have in British Columbia Land Claims will take forever. I travelled the whole world most of my life abd I must say REDNECKS and BIGOTRY are alive and well in Canada

chummy
P.S.: I am not native

docomuso
Or are the methods in Activism different? AS they have more financial clout... perhaps.

chris
I do remember the video footage of the soldier and mohawk warrior standing off in Oka. Goes to show the power of video (that was over 10 years ago now!). It's hard to believe that people have to go to these extremes in a 'civilized' country.

mtkt
Joey, most of the lands claimed by the indigeneous tribes in Central Mindanao are corporate farms of OADI, Silangan, Hermanos, Hacienda Carmen. And the owner of these corporate farms is the Lobregats from Zamboanga... Got it.

Joey
mtkt, you got it!!!

Kat
DOCOMUSO - what do you mean?

docomuso
What I mean is, when Americans see your doc and Joey's work, what is their reaction into action? Do they focus on thier government or give financial donations to Joey's cause.... IS that clearer?

Kat
DOCOMUSO - american reaction is different, at least in the hamptons it was. September 11th is still very very fresh for everyone there, and many people's perspective on the rest of the world is filtered through that experience.

docomuso
Do Americans link what is happening in the Philipinnes to events in their own country with native groups like some Canadians have done here tonight...

docomuso
How did they filter Joey's work through 9/11 eyes?

Kat
I am sure some people in the USA do see similarities, but again, American perspective seems very different.

anropa
So do social/cultural and science documentaries still have to share the purse with so-called documentaries like 'Dogs with Jobs' ?

Peter
docomuso, i dont think Canadian audiences can claim any more or less interest in international issues than any other nation, i think everyone is extremely interested in what is happening in the world, and not satisfied with soundbytes nor gore and violence newspaper headlines, the nice thing bout our film if i can say so, is that we manage to give a little context to the images..... but i believe audiences everywhere want more documentary programmes, and polls tend to support that notion.

anropa
Will you be airing in the States?

Kat
One US woman at our screening said she had a lot less sympathy for global issues since 9/11, that america has its own problems to deal with. I was very surprised to hear that

mjb
a lot of people think that sept 11 is paralysing americans - but the success of michael moore's bowling for columbine seems to indicate that there are important questions that americans want and need to ask

Kat
ANROPA - we hope to get a US sTV broadcast. we are also hoping to go to a few festivals there (we had our US premiere at the Hamptons)

Peter
Kat, I am here.... a group of international filmmakers, Al Maysles, Avi Mograbi etc just happened by the internet station where I am posting this, and I was explaining to them the intracacies of Canadian time zones, the great CBC system which allows docs such as ours, and webchats such as this, and innovative POV docs to reach audiences.... Al Maysles, a master filmmaker who live in the US, doesnt have the kind of access we have been afforded...

chris
I'm calling a friend in Vancouver who's now watching

Kat
Where are people writing from tonight?

anropa
Montreal

chris
Ottawa

docomuso
Toronto.

Analee
Vancouver

Joey
Surallah, south Cotabato, mindanao, Philippines

Kat
DOCOMUSO - yes. Compassion fatique is deadly

docomuso
Especially since we are so inandated with information. It becomes difficult to know where to focus.

StepenM
Stephen In Markham

StepenM
Markham Ontario

docomuso
Last question... How do we fight Compassion fatigue and does the wider access to video cameras increase it's rapid effects.

StepenM
KAT: you mentioned wireless earlier...can you give us an example of how that technology is being used

Kat
DOCOMUSO yes, amateur footage, when not contextualized and used properly, respectfully, can add to compassion fatigue.

Kat
BUT, I truly believe that people do and can care. We just need to focus, and believe that even small changes can make a big difference

Kat
STEPEN M - check out ouf CELL PHONE FEATURE (under the technology section of our website) for examples on how wireless cell phone technology has changed the way we organize ourselves. BUT, there is so much more!

Kat
wireless tech allows people to become receivers and transmitters at the same time - crucial for unmediated democratic potential

docomuso
Thank you for that last comment. Please pass on my appreciation to Joey for his work and assure him that I will but pen to paper on his behalf. Thank you again. Good night

Peter
There is so little space for mexican news even on mexican tv, and only one public educational channel, and only a nascent documentary movement, which given the ";Problems" in this city of 25 millions people seems negligent...

Kat
This is working so well, Chris. you've done a great job. the Chats a real success, everyone. At our height, we've had nearly 100 people in here.

Kat
check out witness.org for over 150 partners around the world, doing work like Joey!

StepenM
Is pirate radio effective in getting news out?

Kat
StepenM - B92 during Milosevic's reign in Serbia. B92 was the major voice of opposition in that ocuntry, when all official media was totally utterly and completely controlled by the dictator

mjb
stepenM - i know that internet radio in europe has been very effective as a tool of social and political activism as well as for indigineous people in china and and people with limited technologicala capabilities in india

Kat
Increasingly, ALEXMONTREAL, national broadcasters around the world are becoming more restrictive, becoming more "introspective" focussing in local regional issues. But it is not impossible to get international stories out

anropa
Kat, ya, but wasn't radio a big part of the irratioanality that went on in Rwanda?

Kat
YES, anropa, radio was the instrument of murder in Rwanda. It is a powerful tool.

Kat
The Interahamwe, (the SS of Rwanda) used constant propaganda on the radio, urging people to kill the Tutsis (the "cockroaches" as they were called) before the Tutsis killed them. The other instrument of murder was FEAR. Kill or be killed was the message

Kat
also, in Rwanda, the Radio is the major tool of commuication, in a country of "collines" more scattered houses than real villages. so battery operated radios are the only means of news in many places

Joey
I'm back. Just informed Datu Sumael and Datu Makapukaw that SIB is on air now in Canada with 100,000 viewers. Response: Gud news!

Peter
mjb, there are many examples of communications revolutions sprouting up in India, I have been there four or five times in the last decade, and their documentary and mediactivist production has increasing exponentially, in terms of numbers and qualities

Peter
Joey, good news is good newsworld.

Kat
JOEY! that is great. tell them of all the great responses on the site. Nakamata has a lot of new supporters in Canada tonite!

Peter
anropa, radio rocks the web, and Peer to Peer movements, copyleft movements are helping to reappropriate the internet back from those who place profits over people

mjb
people interested in finding out more about video activism can also check out: http://www.undercurrents.org/

Joey
Datu Sumael just sent text message saying thanks to everyone in Canada, the struggle is on!

Kat
JOEy, tell us more about Nakamata's monthly meeting that happened this weekend. what kinds of things does Nakamata discuss at such meetings?

Peter
mjb, Undercurrents, Indymedia, Television Trust for the Environment, Greenpeace are all great coalitions or organizations, so one doesnt have to work or activate or record alone, in a void

Joey
Kat, yesterday, 7 organizations attended. Datu Makapukaw texted that the meeting yesterday was for updates; there's always the sharing of problems, proposed solutions, how to expand, find fund to support planned activities.

Kat
What are some of the major issues in the communities today?

Kat
How many land claims have been filed, JOEY? any news on their status?

chris
There is also a great article written by Douglas Adams on interactivity, the web and its impact at http://www.douglasadams.com/dna/19990901-00-a.html

Kat
they have an excellent site, with resources for canadian filmmakers

Joey
The area of deceased Samuel Bento: Gov. Zubiri, according to new chairman Danny Paca, has taken interest in the former ranch, claims to have bought it from the bank, and wants to build a village of settlers on it - of course, that's to build a community of potential voters come election time.

Kat
So has Bento's community actually filed the landclaim that Benot announced, only days before he was murdered?

Joey
Kat, according to Datu makapukaw, none had moved for the past two years with THAT NGO supposed to help them. I feel sorry about that.

Kat
Is that the first land claim you hope to fie with your documentation process?

Peter
Here in Mexico, texting seems to be popular. The Chiapas uprising is and was largely supported and enabled and protected through outreach through the net, beyond handicams.... in early times in the horrific history of central america internationalistas would come to witness and support in solidarity the struggle of the indigenous and working people now the international solidarity movement can be enabled from afar using tools like the web

Joey
The fund we had applied for would hasten the documentation and filing. We are praying that it passes and comes soon. Time is so essential.

Kat
In Venzuela, during the attempted coup (backed by american forces) actually tried to block cell phones in Caracas during the coup to prevent popular mobilization! Check out the story in our Cell phone section of he website

Joey
The last time we discussed with Datu Sumael (and that was last week), we will be able to finish documentation of at least 10 organizations in six months if the funds are available

anropa
Peter - I was marginally connected with people who were working hard at developing inexpensive technology to provide hand-cranked and solar powered radios to media poor populations. I thought it was a great idea until I saw how easily such a'new' could be turned around and used as a weapon. Perhaps I was naive to think it was all good. But it all really scared me. It really made me step back. Maybe too far back. Do you know of a forum where this issue is discussed specifically?

Peter
My spanish isnt so caliente, but new algorithms and software artificial intelligent agents are enabling people on the web to download materials in their own languages, texting and text to type and all sorts of possibilites are comign soon, of course the question remains owned by whom...

Peter
I think the hand cranked radio was invented in South Africa by a Canadian, and certainly had enabled things there, i even use one at home in Montreal...but all technologies are NOT neutral.... some manufacturers are more ethical than others, Sony, i think, doesnt overtly deal in military contracts, they dont need to, they are aimed at consumers and developing technologies useful or not, for consumers

Kat
Check out witness.org for 150 partners like joey, working with new technologies to defend human rights. Like RAWA, a group of brave afghani women who are working to bring true democracy to their country.

mjb
peter: i remember in the documentary S.P.I.T. directed by daniel cross (i was an editor on the project) that the squeegee punk roach who gave viewers a view to his social and poltical world by way of a camcorder also showed activists wearing masks to protect themselves against the police camcorders

Kat
JOEY< how many land claims (approx) have been successfully claimed? how many are outstanding?

StepenM
Good night all ....see you again soon… great work! I am inspired and awakened!

Peter
Anropa, its the unpredicted uses of techologies that interest me. I love the do it yourself culture, the hack around culture, using the tools of technology against the monolitic structures which create such injurious uses for those technologies...it is a ghandian, if not einstinean principle, to know thy enemy... and then, is a peaceful deflective and selfreflective way, the "enemy" will defeat itself...

Joey
Datu Sumael just sent another text message: He sends guarantee that assistance to be received will not go to waste.

mjb
peter: not only self-reflective - but other-reflective - we all thus bear witness

anropa
Peter - Thanks, I'll check into it ( the neg. and pos. of new technologies and the media) much more. I know it's a big question.

Joey
More than 3 yeas ago, Renee and I gave them training on basic documentation skills which they can use to report on high frequency radios, send them direct to Manila and other authorities.

Moderator
Welcome to the chat session. The filmmakers and Joey are standing by.

Joey
This is Joey, logged in from Surallah, South Cotabato, Mindanao, Philippines

Kat
Welcome to our west coast viewers. what did you think of the doc?

spider
It was kind of shocking to see the injustice

Kat
hi spider. indeed, many of the images and reactions are shoking

Kat
I'm here in Montreal, with our wonderful moderator, Sandra.

spider
I think some of the problem is obviously from the police

Joey
Spider, from where are you?

jomadom
joey this joji am in Canada but originally fro SoCot

dulce
this is dulce from vancouver. i was deeply and encouraged by mr. lozano's efforts

Joey
Hi jomadom! Where in south Cot?

Peter
Hi Spider, the chat has been going for a few hours as the film SEEING IS BELIEVING has played in different time zones on Newsworld. Hundreds have logged in at various times, in a really engaged and inquisitive way.

sirguy1
Sirguy1: I'm here from Red Deer Aalberta

mjb
what we are witnessing here i a new way that ordinary people can participate in a form of activism that seems passive but has very powerful potential for active change

jomadom
can't understand why we still this injustices in our country

Peter
Welome everyone

prototype
as a young aspiring filmaker i would like to congratulate you on great work on this political topic

fofo1
hi everyone!hi joeyhi kathi peter

sirguy1
Ordinary is a little too passive for me!

Peter
Sirguy, you know of any examples of video activism in Alberta... I know the Banff Centre for the Arts enables first nations people to tell their own stories.

BananaBoy
From Vancouver: Good evening everyone! Great film!

TVH
Hi im also from Alberta

Daryl
Hello Joey! Kamusta na po kayo?

Kat
JOAMDOM - its in central bukidnon

Peter
Prototype, aspiring can be inspiring, better than expiring...

BananaBoy
First of all Kat... wonderful work and pretty too!! ;-)

Joey
Mabuti, Daryl. Ikaw at ang pamilya mo?

sirguy1
Optimism founded on personal acheivements surpasses ordinary!

Daryl
Okay lang po. I just finished watching your documentary on tv

TVH
What can a high school student like me do to encourage activism like this? or do to help?

chuck
ok, actually i have 2. The first one is: how's the case of the murder in nakamata and how's the progress of the activism there now?

Daryl
It was very interesting

prototype
i'm a little too young to be expiring, but thanks for the motivation

Daryl
When did that happened? I mean the date

jomadom
So what's gonna happen next? Am just wondering, have you caught the attention of our national leaders yet?

Peter
fofo, do you know of any mediactivists in windsor... i know michal moore, whose new film Bowling for Columbine is really good, is a windsorphile, from just across the river in Flint, Michigan..

Kat
SIRGUY1-yes, and yet ";ordinary people" do incredible acts every day. witness.org has over 150 partners around the world doing such incredible work as Joey

gpm
great show. Thanks and good luck.

sirguy1
TVH: U R doing it...good stuff...

Joey
Daryl, it happened in Bukidnon, only last year, from September to November - so short span a time for many killings, di ba?

Daryl
I was wondering if they still investigating about that incident?

Kat
JOMADOM - we are hoping to put international pressure on the governments. join in .write a letter that you can find in our ACT now section

TVH
are there any activist organizations that i can join?

Kat
DARYL - those suspects are still at large

Moderator
TVH: please check out our resources & link page (bottom nav)

Zip111
Joey, what is the relationship between the Phillippine government and landlords?

prototype
i'm curious to know the budget that was needed to produce this film

Kat
that's why we are posting a letter to encourage the filipino authorities to act on those warrents for arrest. ACT NOW section of our website

Joey
Zip111, the Philippine government and those who run it are mostly landlords! And that includes the congress and senate!

Daryl
I'm sorry to hear about this. I live in Canada but I feel so sorry for those people who got shot. I live in Mindanao, in Davao CIty

spider
I was thinking...perhaps pointing the video camera at the daily goings on at the police station and see what they are up to.

mjb
tvh: check out http://www.undercurrents.org/

Daryl
I never left here since '97 so what can i do to help them?

Daryl
Is there any chance?

Kat
PROTOTYPE - sure. it was $300,000 canadian dollars, for five or six people's work over 2 years. As independent producers, we are responsible for everything, including insuring the productions (that's 15,000 right there - or there abouts) and lawyering, and the rent, phone etc etc.

edward
that was very impressive.... really showed how the new media can act as a catalyst for grassroots action

jomadom
Am from Winnipeg, Canada, one member of Parliament in Canada is a fellow Pinoy, just wondering if I bring this up with him--do you think it will help in anyway?

Joey
Daryl, visit the campaign site of seeing is believing

majormind
how about those snuff films in the states?

Kat
JOMADOM - definately!!! cehck out the letter posted at ACT NOW, and send it off to the Filipino MP! thats a great idea

Daryl
ok i'll do that

TVH
Joey: how long have you been doing your activist work?

Kat
being joined my many great people, so please, everyone bear with us as we deal with major traffic! we are new at this

Joey
Maraming salamat, Daryl. Don't get disconnected with our homeland, ok?

Daryl
I won't I promise :)

Joey
TVH, I've been into activist since 1965, then into video about 89.

Kat
MAJORMIND - yes, in nefarious hands, these tools can be used in nefarious ways

anropa
Jomadom - I think you could help alot by bring it to the attention of an MP

abbyman
joey:watching the doc makes me think about how blessed we are to live in canada

anna
Joey, can any charges be brought against those that own the land

Kat
for example, the chechen rebels in moscow reportedly were busy editing a video of their raid into the moscow theatre when the place was gassed.

chuck
at the outset, the documentary is introduced as "the use of the technology on all side of the politcal spectrum", err but in the film, it seems to me u didnt talk a lot about the "right" side of the story. You have any comment on that?

Kat
the chechen rebels were using the tapes from the surveillance cameras

Joey
Anna, we're looking into all possibilities for the tribe to reclaim the land, and those who are supposed to be in jail, to be brought there.

Bakh
For Kat and Peter - The 'voyeur' has a reputation for being impotent, patient (passionate, able to receive all things), but unable to act. Your film obviously calls into question this characterisation. Is the 'eye' enough? (You do tease away at the role of word...)

Kat
CHUCK - we spent about 10 minutes of the film dealing with that. thats 20% of the film, more than anything outside of Joeys story. but you are right, there are many many examples that weunfortuantely had to leve out for this version. watch for the series!

PeterWitnonick
majormind, yes snuff films are insidious, but there is another kind of snuff film, in other words the mainstream commercial news which is also trying to "snuff" out peoples minds, peoples critical abilities, peoples right to information, peoples right to communicate, and the communication of rights

Zip111
There should be a watchdog group investigating police practices worldwide and exposing police/crony collusion.

chuck
nof cool thanx

Kat
BAKH - the potential of new media is its interactivity. moving from passive consumer technology into an active producer, such as this interactive site we are on now. this kind of interaction was impossible even a few years ago. Its changing the way people see media, televisiosn and democracy. we hope, anyway

BananaBoy
What kind of Canadian democracy are we living in when the moderator censors your messages?!

Kat
BANANABOY - we are moderating due to heavy traffic.

Moderator
I'm not censoring.

BananaBoy
Oh sorry... but I see this "Messages in moderation queue" below??

Moderator
Yes, to regulate the flow of posts to the site so it won't crash.

Kat
ZIP111 - yes. Witness.org is doing a good job of this. check out our ACT NOW section where you can have your concern heard by the filipino authorities

chuck
joey: keep on, and i hope u and the nakamata people will get the ultimate success and get the butt all of those powerful scumbags

stacy
Joey: are the nakamata interested in the editing and other technological aspects of the filmmaking?

Joey
Yes, chuck, thanks. We'll see to that.

Zip111
I will do that, thanks.

jomadom
This story is very sad ... same issues we.ve been fighting for way back in my days at South Cotabato--It's sad that after what the country has gone through all these years--we are back to the same situation. A piece of advise though. . . more exposure use all means and avenues

PeterWintonick
Mr Banana, please be patient, do you not moderate yourself every time to utter a thought or a text, or are you a stream or consciousness person, or an xtreme of conscience person

anropa
Bananaboy - You are not being censored.

Joey
Yes stacy, we'll be doing that early next year hopefully.

edward
for anyone: i have some footage from the Summit of the Americas protest and actions in Quebec city....But much of it is sketchy at best (for example, no audio). Are there any good websites out there to help people with little training in audio/visual equipement etc.. learn more about the filmaking process?

BananaBoy
anyway, awesome film.. i was thinking about becoming a videographer before but ended up in graphic design (close enough!)

Kat
STACY - you can contribute financially to a hands on training session for Nakamata exactly in that - editing and post-production of their own work!

mjb
this forum we are all involved in is itself testament to the power of simple but effective and powerful ways of coming together and sharing important ideas and creating a social will for political change

Kat
EDWARD - witness.org and undercurrents have excellent training materials available on -line. check out our resources and links page

stacy
Kat: I'd be interested in publicising that--where should people go for info? Witness.org

PeterWintonick
Banana, have you thought of working for Adbusters in Vancouver, they put talented graphic people to great culture jammin use

Kat
STACY - on this very site! moderator, please give direct link to wish list site

Moderator
To make a donation to Nakamata go to: http://www.seeingisbelieving.media/wishlist/

sirguy1
Agree mbj

Bakh
Kat - In such horrifying cases as those that you document here, the 'good' the eye does is obvious. It seems that the camera causes a hesitation in the 'flow' of action. Does the idea of a world of watchers frighten you?

Joey
Right, mjb. I remember a dear deceased friend who said in 1995 that getting to me from New York is like looking for me in the moon. Now, with orgs like Witness, even tribe members who live in the remotest places in Mindanao can reach out to the world.

BananaBoy
Adbusters? hehe love their work but i guess im a sell out doing commerical graphic design ;-P

PeterWintonick
Edward, Magnus Isacsson led a collective team of videographers to produce a film, wth the National Film Boards help, called a view from the summit. As well Indymedia also might be interested in putting out your stuff.

sirguy1
sorry...mjb!

pica
KAT - dont forget the negative implications that new and old media can have by disseminating false or harmful information. From Hitlers propanganda techniques to current American Imperialistic media persuasion. Media can be a political activist best friend or a unsavoury leaders favourite tool to influence

Kat
BAKH - yes. I hate being watched myself. and there are indeed huge issues around surveillance in the world we live in. For example,London England streets are all monitored by cameras everywhere. But I also beleive in the power of the people behind amateur cameras.

edward
ok thanks

peachymom
I found this documentary very interesting but wish it had been a bit longer and more multidimensional. Was reminded of a very interesting talk given by Gynne Dyer (sp?) a few years ago. He spoke of this very thing - the use of media to bring world attention to a particular situation and how that affected the outcome. I was amazed when you mentioned that (I think I've got this right) cell phones played such a big role in changing the gov't in the Phillipines.

mjb
joey: i think that's fantastic - and the world can reach back at them as well

Kat
PICA - indeed! Milosevic at the international criminal tribunal is busy showing his own pieces of videotape. in fact, he help the entire country tightly in his genocidal reigns thorghou total and utter control of the media!

Analee
Indymedia in Vancouver posts links to sites offering activist footage -- check it out.

dulce
Mabuhay po kayo, Mr. Lozano! It's encouraging to know that people like you back up their sense of country and idealism with concrete actions that affect people.

mjb
sirguy1: no problem - knew what you meant :-)

Kat
PEACHYMOM - thanks! we too wish it could be longer. please check out our cell phone feature on this site that goes itno more details about cell phone impact around the world!

Analee
And for info about surveillance camera busting, check out Surveillance Camera Players (based out of New York).

PeterWintonick
Bakh, a world of watchers is frightening, watchers, voyeurs, observers... but watching the watchers, witnessing the witnesses and then ACTING upon the information you absorb to made passive people into citizens in the real sense

Joey
Thanks, Dulce. But we also need outside support to attain concrete gains.

stacy
Joey: How is the increasing presence of US forces impacting on Mindanao, especially indigenous rights groups, if at all? Here we see a lot of popular movements being branded terrorist. I suspect that risks are even greater in the Philippines.

BananaBoy
Kat: i hear u! but u should debate with my co-worker.. he believes that freedom is a privilege, not a right and that he would be willing to give a sample of his dna to the authorities to keep on file to prove his innocence, just like that movie gattica

Bakh
Kat and Peter - Indeed, the distinction you point to here between the Orwellian surveillance and what we might call a multiple counter-surveillance on the part of those already within the scope of the Panopticon is crucial. But isn't the MOST crucial stage the stage which still belongs to the word, narrative (in all forms, including the building of documentaries)?

Analee
It's an amazing experience to be chatting with people who are engaged with the issues and motivated to act. Very inspiring.

dulce
how can i help aside from supporting your site and info campaigns? i am a lawyer in the philippines and also in canada.

Joey
Stacy, there was a time, during the Balikatan months ago when Subanen tribe complained about intrusion of members of US forces intruding into their domains. Oppositionists, even in the legal front face the danger of being branded as terrorist.

PeterWintonick
Banana, i worked in fiction features for seven years before i took the documentary vow of poverty almost 20 years ago... was working in fiction a sell out, perhaps, but i also learned a few things and have alway been able to volunteer time to good causes, however you define them, even with a day job

Kat
BAKH - yes. POINT OF VIEW, humanity behind the images , for me is key. I love seeing documentaries where the camera person gets a hug (literally). That to me is inspiring

mjb
the dvcam is very powerful medium - but we should not forget that the printed word also has its power - here it is evident - and also there are may opportunities for self-publishing text based reporting online as well both on personal sites and hosted blog sites - much important information is also passed along this way - anyone can be a witness and use all the tools at our disposal

dulce
sorry -- my previous question was directed to Mr. Lozano

PeterWintonick
dulce, you can email us, and we can strategize over how as a lawyer you can contribute, the lawyers committe for human rights was a major supporter and home for witness in its genesis years

mjb
fiction and by extension poetry can be a profound way of representing the interior experience of people in social and political circumstances just as well as the more common romances

TVH
Heres a questions for Kat and Peter, was it dangerous for you being foreign journalist reporting the story over there?

Bakh
Kat - This seems to me to be the fascinating change taking place now, thanks in no small part to the work of minority writer who demand that 'objectivity' is not only a dream, but a dangerous one - that the story belongs to its teller, and that whatever truth there is depends upon that. As important, for instance, as the images of Nakamata is the narrative history which cannot itself be filmed....

edward
joey, are there many other groups of indigenous peoples within the philippines who are fighting to gain back their ancestral lands?

PeterWintonick
mjb, the pencil, in the hands of a poet, or a sketch artist is a powerful weapon... i met a navajo new media artist this summer, victor n., and he taught me that the pencil can be just as appropriate a technology in the right hands at the right time

Kat
the danger we were in was getting kidnapped for randsom. thats about it. otherwise, the true danger is for joey and the nakamata members who are standing up for their rights

Moderator
we are currently sending a cell phone text message to joey to get him back up. Stand by!

Joey
Edward, yes. It's all throughout. Sorry, just don't have exact figures now.

stacy
Joey: I know the Philippines has a strong history of cultural work--using plays and street theater--as a way to fight oppresion and communicate alternative views. DO you think this history of popular story telling and playmaking helps you make the jump to using film as a tool to tell your own story? On the other side, is electronic media more or less accessible in rural areas?

mjb
PeterWintonick: nice idea

BananaBoy
technology.. hate it :-( , love it! :-)

Kat
BAKH - yes. voice matters.

pica
I wanted to comment on the NBI.The coverage was Abbreviated but it portrayed them as the Nations hero's in the Doc. but in reality they are just as corrupt or easily corrputABLE as the local Govt.

Joey
Yes, stacey. Nakamata can go to an internet cafe in Malaybalay, some 20 minutes or so from their area.

Kat
that's what is so great about video vs. photo. video provides the opportunty for words.

Kat
PICA- i hope it wasn;t as simple as that.

Analee
Stacy -- I know your question is for Joey, but you might be interested in the Bangladesh story in the cell phone section of the site. Talks about how tech advances in telecommunications are allowing rural villagers without much access to electricity to 'leapfrog' over conventional tech, like telephone landlines, and use them for their benefit.

mjb
pica: i think that the doc presented the NBI as being of a dubious character with respect to the sincerity of their investigation

PeterWintonick
pica, i think your interpretation of how the nbi are portrayed is not shared by everyone.... i think your ideas are implicit in the material

jomadom
Can each involved in this conversation say where they're from, so just to feel how wide range the issues are coming from . . .am from Winnipeg

Moderator
Could all the lurkers please sign in with their location?

mjb
Montreal

peachymom
Victoria

Kat
I'm Kat, i'm here with our moderator Sandra, in a great loft in old montreal

TVH
Calgary

Bakh
I am a Newfoundlander, presently living in Montréal.

Joey
Pica, to tell the truth, they agreed to make the arrest after I promised them that I'll take care of their breakfast and lunch.

Analee
From Vancouver but often in Montreal.

sirguy1
Red Deer Alberta

chuck
toronto! doh!

Kat
BAKH - great! we haven't heard from too many east coasters tonight

majormind
montreal

Moderator
Any one else out there?

mjb
nice to see so many montrealers burning the late night oil here where it's 3 in the morning - great discussion!

jomadom
Thank you, folks

edward
peter, you are in Mexico... I would imagine the situation within Chiapas and the EZLN would provide another good example of the impact which new media are having on different political struggles... Do you know of many others in the area doing this kind of work?

anropa
still here in Montreal. Time for bed soon. My very first chat room experience. Quite something,Thankyou. Will be watching the site.

sirguy1
Nakh "newfy" I'm a towny from east St. johns..been in Alberta for 30 yrs..

edward
new brunswick, baby

stacyc
I'm stacy from Victoria. I'm accidently looged in twice--as stacyc and stacy--sorry not as technologically advanced as in Mindanao!

PeterWintonick
edward did anyone answer your question, if not you could post it again, we are going to be archivign this conversation dialog multilog and might be able to respond in more depth if possible, or you all can followup with an email sent through the seeing is believing website or to info(commercial at)necessaryillusions.ca

Kat
ANROPA - this is my first chat too, so thanks for all your insightful comments, and making this interesting for the last few hours. come back and visit us again!

Moderator
To post your comments permanently or continue the discussion post chat, go to the FORUM:

pica
KAT- arresting murder suspects may do partial justice, but the greater injustice is the unequal distribution of wealth and power with respect to rural and mainland Phillipines.Maybe the next Passionate Eye should focus on exposing long term solutions to more socio-politic dillemmmas in the Philippines.

Dandy
I just took down the information from the Act Now section so I can write the letters in support of the Nakamata Campaign. I will do a bit by writing those letters and to make for a more just world.

deb
Joey, are there any popular singers or actors in the philippines who would be interested in publicly supporting the struggles of the Nakamata and others like them? What is the public attitude on these matters generally speaking? In my experience, the general public in the Philippines may not always be aware or support these issues. This program was terrific in making me aware of of issues that I have only vaguely heard of through my friends there.

Bakh
Newfoundlanders have their own complex history of suffering in relation to the camera. Greenpeace, as in your film, have created considerable distress there in the matter of, for instance, the seal hunt. Accusations have been raised that brutal video used to stir sentiment against the hunting of seals was produced with that intention in mind by individuals unrelated to the seal hunt there. My questions about the role of history, culture, and narrative in relation to brute 'fact' are coming from these issues

Kat
PICA - we agree with you. but justice needs to be universal and complete. people in the communities are shaking with fear with these suspect walking around. If they are arrested, it will be the first time in Nakamata history that the authorities have reacted. This will have a huge impact. People will think twice before being contracted out to kill

jomadom
Joey, coming from that end of the world...these people (local police or the NBI) are operating on a very limited budget . . . am pretty sure you have better equipment that they have. It's a totally different world from where we are

Joey
Deb, there are. But it would not be easy for Nakamata to request them do a favor in their behalf. It takes remendous effort (and maybe cash) to get them involved at this time.

Kat
BAKH - yes. images played a crucial issue in the seal hunting issue. Images are powerful, and they make the producers of images very powerful

Joey
You're right jomadom. But it's not only lack of funds. Could be lack of initiative. The ";outside world" helps build pressure for them to act, I'm sure of that.

sirguy1
Seals are protrayed to be "Cute" Anthromorphic however cattle and chickens are abused and slaughtered my billions...

PeterWintonick
Edward, ive met some people working here in mexico city, also in the wahaka (phonetic spelling) and cuenevaca areas

edward
anyone... there is an excellent book called "the nervous system" written by anthropologist Michael Taussig which deals in print with similar issues....especially how right-wing paramilitaries in Columbia are able to spread fear throughout various regions of Columbia

Kat
BAKH - especially images of animals and babies. the innocent. I find it astounding that people squirm at the images of the chicken ritual in our film, and don't blink during the congo sequence. I have seen this happen in many screenings

dulce
mang joey, i did my legal internship w/ PANLIPI when i was a law student at the Ateneo and worked for the Probe Team for a while. it's nice to know that they are still at it and there are other groups who advocate for the rights of indegenous peoples

BananaBoy
sirguy1.. ever see that docmentary about vegans and livestock farmers on newsworld?

chuck
hmm i really started to wonder if people not from anglophone countries / dont know english very well / their issue not really "related" to the "west" will be benefited... just my doubt

Bakh
Kat - Did you feel the level of responsibility appropriate to your own power as a producer of films while you were making this film? Already you are seeing its power to inspire... One could get drunk on power like that...

peachymom
Kat, yes images ARE powerful but we have to be careful about what we watch. I recall an old NFB film called 'Making the News' which introduced to me for the first time the idea that what I saw on TV could be manipulated.

Bakh
producer of images, that should read.

Analee
Bakh -- one of the most written-about controversies about the use of video and how much it can be trusted was about allegedly staged footage of abuse of seals & other animals for the purpose of shutting down hunts.

Joey
That's good, Dulce. Yes, they do. If they could field a staff, good. Ang problema kasi, minsan kulang ang mga staff for fieldwork.

Kat
BAKH - yes, i really worry about the responsiblity of working with these images. It can be a very dangerous thing. But its very humbling too.

sirguy1
BananaBoy...No, can you give me details?

BananaBoy
peachymom.. totally... i work in advertising and believe me.. u must question everything u see, read and hear... the news is not always the truth

Kat
PEACHMOM- yes! people need to think more about how they see what they see

dulce
more power to you mr. lozano, peter, and kat. i am signing off now. nice chatting with you.

Kat
we need to think more about the images we put out there too

PeterWintonick
Bakh, its true that Greenpeace takes alot of flak for its interventions whether on sealing or whaling or toxic emmisions, and could be accused of being insensitve in a few rare instances to all the issues which stem from the issues it tries to raise.... but their voice, and their "message" and those of all other activists, whether right or left or centre, and in fact all news souces should be questioned for their propaganda values too.... in fact is good that we can question our own film, too

jomadom
Joey, you bet . . . sad to say there's still a deafening void of initiative even at the national leadership level in our country

Joey
Thank you, too, Dulce for your interest. Ingat.

sirguy1
BananaBoy...how can I get more info?

BananaBoy
sirguy1... i dont know what the documentary was called, but i think it was an obvious title u can probably find on newsworld site for the passionate eye or rough cuts

PeterWintonick
...should be questioned and critiqued, just as we always open our own films to self and audience criticism as well, which is partly what this chatroom is about

sirguy1
Thanks I will follow this up....BananaBoy...

BananaBoy
peachymom, people are objective some of the time and bias all of the time, we usually pick a side or at least sway more towards one way than another

mjb
perhaps we ought to consider that what we bear witness to should only be the beginning of our investigation

majormind
peter, did you ever worrk for the BBC?

Bakh
Peter - Chatrooms can be exceedingly interesting places. But one must seek them out; and in a sense, to seek it is already to be critical, to know when to judge and when to curb the reflex to judge. Isn't the danger of television and radio that it broadcasted open-endedly - into places where criticism is not nurtured?

Bakh
broadcasts, that is

Kat
BAKH - yes. this is the first broadcast (because of this chat) that I feel a bit satisfied. Human contact is so important. nothing beats a live screening and discussion, but this is getting close.

PeterWintonick
mjb, bearing witness begins with bearing the weight of evidence of injustice upon ones shoulders, but we should then begin immediately to remove the weight from our shoulders and share it, in common cause and in common quest, and investigation into our own (in)human nature

Moderator
How do people feel about winding the discussion down in 15 min.

Moderator
Please post your final questions/comments!

jomadom
Sounds good to me .. it's been very enligthenig God Bless . . .

peachymom
You know this documentary gave me a lot of hope for the future. And this internet is incredible! I can talk to people (and learn about them) all over the world. Thanks Joey, Peter, & Kat for enlightening me just a bit more.

Moderator
To post your comments permanently or continue the discussion post chat, go to the FORUM:

BananaBoy
sirguy1: FOUND IT!! Chickens are People Too - http://www.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/newsworld/viewer.cgi?FILE=PI20020805.html&TEM PLATE=pe2.ssi&SC=PI

Joey
To all of you there, in behalf of Nakamata, our sincerest appreciation for spending time with them - us. Please visit other sections of the website. Maraming salamat sa inyong lahat!

Bakh
Moderator - Perhaps this inforrmation is available here somewhere already, but are there e-mail addresses at which I might reach the panelists?

Kat
Bakh - yes, go to about the film for our contact info

jomadom
Peter, wishing you all the best . . .

Moderator
To keep up-to-date with Joey & Nakamata go to: http://www.seeingisbelieving.media/nakamata/

Joey
Also, for those who helped create the SIB site, you're wonderful and so kind. Great thanks.!!!

jomadom
That goes to Joey too . . .

AnaleeW
Joey, Kat, Peter, Eric, Chris -- thank you for making this happen. I'll say it again -- it's been very inspiring.

Bakh
Kat and Peter - Thank you kindly for your thoughtful responses.

PeterWintonick
Bakh, chat rooms are not rooms without walls, is what i hear you saying.... interactive television might provide feedback in the loop, so the messages are not so monocular but bidriectional.... if one wants to scat on a riff, maybe we could reivent spam to not give horrible adverts incessantly or links to exploitation sexsites but to rework spam to send out postive proactive i.e. PRO mediACTIVE info

BananaBoy
Joey, Peter, & Kat.. Thank u... wonderful work, hope to c u sometime again!

Bakh
Joey - Wishing you the best.

Kat
Thanks, Joey for scouting out your computer at the internet site, and managing to "fight off" the video game playing kids to talk to us

Joey
Welcme, jomadom. Thanks, too, for your participation.

Moderator
Thanks to all for participating in tonight's discussion.

Bakh
Peter - A marvelous point.

Kat
and thanks to our AMAZING moderator, who has kept this whole thing going. SNADRA, you deserve a big fat shout out too

Joey
Welcome Kat. Best regards to everyone.

Kat
oops. that's SANDRA. yes. SANDRA. thank you. you've been great.

jomadom
Joey just got to know where are originally from?

Kat
thanks to my wonderful co-director Peter, for scouting out an internet cafe in steamy mexico city, where there are so amny other wonderful things to do

majormind
all the best to aboriginals, god is watching

Kat
we'll post the transcript and results from this chat soon. stay posted everyone, there's more to come here

Kat
6 more minutes everyone

PeterWintonick
Ahh, I am missing you all already, you know I experimented with chat in a virtual film festival site i helped create eight years ago, and althought the surface seems simple, there is alot of workd that goes into it, so i really want to thank the coders and html designers and moderators and especially Kat and Joey all the hundreds of participants who logged on and the hundreds of thousands who watched and to Catherine Olsen, the webpeopel at CBC (a great site itsefl) and to Jerry Mcintosh and CBC newsworld

majormind
excellent kat and all

peachymom
Thanks. bye for now.

Kat
yes, thanks to cbc for all their support in making this website happen.

mjb
bye and thanks for the great discussion and all the great work you've done

Moderator
Be sure to visit witness.org

Kat
Also, they're fast asleep now, but Eric, our architect and designer and CHRIS our programmer have been so instrumental in not only making this site work, but making it beautiful too. thanks to you two for all. namaste

majormind
the criminal mind works in places where there are no witnesses, expose them

Kat
ah, peter, you're tearing me up

Moderator
Last 3 minutes...

PeterWintonick
CLICKING was BELIEVING, peace out ..... wintonick.... reach us at necessary illusions in Montreal

Kat
thanks to all.

PeterWintonick
3 minutes mixdown to the silence of seeing

majormind
good work and i thank you

Kat
by anropa. you've really been a trooper

Kat
thanks majormind. great having you here

BananaBoy
LOVE U GUYS! later gators... ;-) nightie night!

Moderator
This is it folks, we're officially closing down. Good night from Montreal, Mexico, Philippines to all.

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